OLD LYME PLANNING COMMISSION
PUBLIC HEARING AND REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 9, 2008
PRESENT WERE: Harold Thompson, Steve Ross, Connie Kastelowitz, and Alternate Sean Mulligan seated for Rob McCarthy. Also present were: Attorney Ed Cassella, Attorney Chris Smith, Attorney Michael Cronin and Kim Groves.
The Chairman called the meeting to order at 7:35 p.m.
PUBLIC HEARING
SUBDIVISION – SHORT HILLS PROPERTIES, LLC – SHORT HILLS ROAD – SEVEN LOTS.
Thompson noted for the record that Steve Ross has listened to the tapes and reviewed the documentation from the last meeting. He also noted that Connie Kastelowitz had also reviewed the documentation and will be listening to the tapes from the prior meeting.
Thompson reported that the commission has hired its own consultant, DLS Consulting, Traffic Engineer Services, to conduct a traffic study on the subject property. Thompson reported that the study done by DLS also stated that the F,A, Hesketh & Associates, Inc. traffic report for the applicant trip generation estimate is conservative and actual trip generation maybe somewhat lower than indicated. Thompson stated the additional traffic that would be added to the road falls well below the threshold of being a burden on the existing roads. (A copy of the study is attached)
Thompson stated at the last meeting that there was no clear definition as to where the water tanks would be located on the site; therefore the commission requested that the applicant provide some additional information on the fire suppression plans for the subdivision.
Mike Bennett, applicant for the engineer, reviewed the plan submitted to the commission showing the proposed location of the water tanks as well as the construction of the tanks. He stated the proposal is to locate the tanks at the end of the circle where Tooker Road turns around and goes back out Great Oak Road. He stated there would be three 10,000 gallon water tanks located underground connected by pipes. He stated they are constructed on the north side, which would allow a truck to pull up and access the tank. He further noted that a small paved area has been provided. Attorney Chris Smith, for
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the applicant, stated for the record that the commission has received correspondence from both the Fire Chief, Dave Jewett dated October 8, 2008 and also from the Fire Marshal dated October 8, 2008.
Thompson asked Attorney Cassella to address the concerns with regard to the emergency access easement. Attorney Cassella asked the applicant whether there would be a gate across the easement so that the commission can determine whether or not it is a viable access way and also what arrangements have been made with the local authorities who will be using the easement in an emergency situation. Attorney Chris Smith stated in the correspondence from Fire Chief Jewett dated October 8, 2008, that he made a reference to the emergency access way that is being shown on the subdivision map and if gates are to be provided an OLFD lock shall be provided for the gate. Attorney Smith stated the applicant would have no objection to that request. Cassella asked the applicant if gates were necessary
from their perspective. Marty Smith stated that gates would assist in keeping traffic that does not belong off the road. He further stated it was entirely a commission decision, but noted that there is a commercial operation further to the north that would also like to control traffic and he would like to minimize ATV traffic. Cassella stated that the police are often first responders and asked how they would be provided access. Marty Smith stated he has not been in contact with the Resident State Trooper, but he stated in other towns lock boxes have been provided on the gate and he is willing to make that arrangement with the public safety personnel in Old Lyme in any manner they see fit.
Thompson noted for the record that the applicant has provided an Open Space Report dated September 24, 2008. He further noted that the proposal is for the open space located in the subdivision to be deeded to the seven lots. He stated the question has been raised as to whether the town should also have rights to the open space in the future.
Attorney Cassella asked the applicant to clarify anything the town was going to be responsible for as far as maintenance on the site moving forward. Cassella also asked the applicant if he would be willing to give the town some third party oversight to allow the town to inspect and make sure the open space is being maintained under the terms of the conservation easement.
Marty Smith stated what is proposed is an open space easement, which has been provided in the Open Space Report that has been submitted to the commission. Smith stated the language used in that easement is the language that was provided to us by the Open Space Committee. Smith stated the proposal is to deed the open space over to the homeowners association and included in that language is the language that the Open Space Committee requested in terms of allowing entry and inspection. Smith referenced the document in the report. Cassella asked if the open space was the only component of the subdivision
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to be held by the homeowner’s association. Smith indicated that was correct. Cassella asked if he was correct that the road and all of the drainage is proposed to be deeded to the town. Smith indicated that was correct. Mike Bennett reviewed the exact items that were proposed to be deeded to the town. Those items included the right-of-way for the roadway, easement for an outlet pipe with discharge and a right to drain on Lot 5, on Lot 1 storm water quality basin, and also on the east side of the roadway there is a temporary sloping and grading easement for the duration of the construction of the roadway.
Thompson reminded the audience that this evening’s discussions would be limited to the seven lot subdivision application. He further stated the schematic for future development does not apply and in fact is not even in compliance with the Old Lyme Zoning Regulations at this point.
Ross stated at the time the commission walked the site the roadway was proposed to be private, therefore he asked if that has now changed and the roadway is intended to be a town road. Attorney Smith stated at the time of the site walk the applicant was unclear of the town’s desire but it is his understanding the preference was for it to be a town road.
Ross asked if the terminus of the roadway was adequate for fire trucks. Mike Bennett reviewed the area on the plan.
Attorney Chris Smith submitted a packet to the commission that included the resumes of the various experts who worked on the application.
Attorney Smith also submitted a letter from the Department of Public Safety (State Police) dated October 1, 2008 stating there are have been no accidents reported on Short Hills Road for the period from January 1, 2005 through September 25, 2008. (Smith submitted the letter to the commission)
Smith stated the applicant retained the services of a Fire Services Safety Consultant, Mr. Tim Pelton , who performed an analysis on the site and submitted a report to the commission. Smith read a few items from the report into the record dated October 7, 2008. Smith stated that the report concluded that that the intersection of the proposed road is safe for and will accommodate emergency vehicles and the turnaround area will accommodate the turning radius for the largest truck that would enter the subdivision. It also indicated that access from the existing public road known as Short Hills Road is adequate to accommodate emergency apparatus serving the proposed subdivision”.
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Attorney Smith also stated that it was brought up that the 1,200 ft.. maximum roadway requirement under Section 5.5.7 e.2 (Page 45) of the subdivision regulations may apply to this particular application. Smith stated that they respectfully suggest that this provision deals with dead end cul-de-sacs that are being created as part of a subdivision. Smith further stated as the commission knows there is “Old Tooker Road” which is an existing private road that goes from Short Hills Road all the way over to Route 1 and it is their position that there is an existing road there and the proposal is to improve the first 1,500 ft in from Short Hills Road and then if the commission were to approve this and then convey that over to the town. Therefore, this application does not have a dead
end cul-de-sac and that the existing private road is being improved. Therefore, Attorney Smith stated he does not feel this section applies to this application.
Secondly, Smith stated, if you read the application it states that “in general, that dead end streets shall not be longer than 1,200 ft. Temporary dead-end streets which may be projected into adjoining property at some future date, may exceed the length but shall not exceed a reasonable length for safe and vehicular access……. Smith stated this is not a regulation that would require a waiver or a variance because the commission has discretion within its regulation. Smith stated it is also his position that the section does not apply because there is a through road that is being improved and even if it does apply we comply with the regulations since the subdivision has a adequate turnaround. Smith read the section that states “the commission may approve a subdivision
application where the public safety can be assured through subdivision design of intermediate turnouts, emergency access roads or other devices to relieve traffic congestion and provide safe access for fire and emergency vehicles.” Smith suggested that the substantial evidence of this record confirms this subdivision has a turnaround at the end that will accommodate emergency service vehicles and provides for emergency access to Route 1, and will generate a minimum increase in traffic associated with the seven lot subdivision which was provided in the applicant’s traffic report and as well as the commission’s traffic consultant’s report. Smith further stated that is the opinion of the applicant’s Fire Safety Consultant, Mr. Pelton, that the subdivision has access to an existing road and Short Hills Road can accommodate emergency service vehicles. Therefore, Attorney Smith stated the applicant certainly falls within the verbiage of
this provision and the commission can approve this at 1,500 ft. Smith stated if the commission believes a waiver is required then the applicant has a formal letter respectfully requesting that the application be amended. The applicant submitted the letter and stated the application does comply with Section 3.5.1, which is required for a wavier and can be granted if the waiver will not have a significant adverse impact on adjacent property or on public health and safety.
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COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC:
Attorney Cronin was present on behalf of the neighboring property owners, Victoria Lanier and John Eicholz. Cronin stated that at the last meeting a legal question was raised as to the validity of the enforceability of Section 5.5.2 of the Subdivision Regulations. Cronin stated the last sentence of that regulation states “where the commission determines that the condition of the existing road is such that the approval of the subdivision could result in a potential safety hazard, the commission may require that the applicant make improvements to the existing town road to ensure the safety of the residents of the new subdivision”. Cronin stated that the applicant had stated earlier that this section is non-applicable because this is an unenforceable section under the Connecticut Case Law. Cronin stated since the last meeting he has done some additional research and has determined that despite the cases presented by the applicant’s counsel, the existing law in the State of
Connecticut is that this is an open question. Cronin stated that there is no case that says that the regulation, which the commission has requiring off-site improvements to existing substandard roads is unenforceable. Cronin stated that the case that comes the closest to addressing this issues was decided in 2005 was “RYA Corp versus Planning and Zoning Commission (cited March 2005 – 87 Conn App. 658) and the case comment was as follows “This case, therefore, does not present an opportunity to address the question left open whether a town may enact regulations authorizing a Planning and Zoning Commission to condition its approval of a subdivision application on the applicants widening of a public road abutting the proposed subdivision”. Therefore, Cronin stated that issue is still outstanding. Cronin submitted a copy for the record. Cronin stated it is their position in that matter that this commission has that section and
it can address that issue and it should address that issue. Cronin stated they do not feel the town should subsidize the developer with regard to this project.
Cronin stated that the engineering report from Thomas Metcalf dated September 20, 2008 addressed to Janet Bechtel, Chairperson of the IWWC, Mr. Metcalf does indicate concerns about the condition about the roadway and in essence what he says is that those issues are better addressed by an expert with regard to traffic. Cronin stated there were two elements in his concerns. The first was the actual traffic patterns at the existing roadway, but the second aspect of the letter related to the condition of the roadway providing access to the roadway, which is part of the subdivision. Cronin stated Mr. Metcalf does state that it does not meet design criteria of the Planning Regulations. Cronin stated when they discovered the town had retained a traffic engineering they thought they would get a full report
on the issues and the scope of Mr. Metcalf’s letter and that was not what they received. He stated all that was received was a traffic report of the vehicles coming into the site and the sightlines. He stated basically it was a paraphrase of the traffic report provided by the applicant. Cronin stated he did not feel an
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appropriate evaluation has been made of the safety hazards unless more detail is provided.
Cronin stated the other issue not addressed by the engineer was the effect of this development with respect to the traffic patterns in the area beyond the actual seven lot subdivision. He stated under Section 5.5. e 2 if there are 25 lots served by a roadway that there be two entrances not just one. He also noted this was also a part of the Plan of Conservation and Development.
Cronin stated the second aspect of the regulation is that the roadway must provide a reasonable overall traffic pattern getting in and out of the subdivision. Cronin stated that the town’s traffic engineer simply ignored all those issues. Cronin presented a copy of the assessor’s map that he had cut and pasted to put all of the surrounding roads which shows the traffic layout in that particular area. Cronin read the section that stated “in general dead end streets shall not be longer than 1,200 feet from the nearest intersection having more than one outlet and shall not provide access to more than 30 building lots.” Cronin stated if you read that regulation literally where do you go before you get to intersection with more than one outlet. Cronin stated if you start
off with the proposed subdivision street, which is 1,600 ft from the intersection with Short Hills Road. Cronin stated he was putting himself in the position of being the last property owner at the end of the new proposed street. He stated he would have to go 1,500 ft before he gets to Short Hills Road, which is 300 ft beyond the regulations. He stated the street he gets to does not have two outlets either because there is only one direction which is to the right another 1,800 ft until the intersection of Flat Rock Hill Road which does not have two outlets. Then he heads south 2,400 ft until the intersection of Hatchetts Hill Road and Flat Rock Hill Road where he can go left and get out of town or go right across town.
Ross asked Attorney Cronin to read the section of the regulation again. Cronin read the regulation again to the commission. Cronin stated that you have to travel over a mile to an intersection that meets that specific technical definition. Cronin stated you do not want a whole bunch of lots off of one outlet. He stated the commission is already in excess of the 30 lots. Cronin stated there are certain things that the commission can give waivers to but these 7 lots will put the commission well beyond the intent of the regulation. Cronin stated the road through the woods does not excuse you from this particular policy. Cronin stated the regulation should be read the way he is reading it because it is the intent of the regulation to not allow a large population of the town to be
served by one road. Cronin stated that the commission could deny the subdivision and require the applicant to come up with another access to the site and he feels the commission has its legal right to do it. Cronin stated that the emergency access people in town have expressed concerns about the access. He further stated they want a deeded access to the town as stated in Dave Jewett’s letter, dated October 9, 2008.
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Cronin requested the commission on behalf of his client to ask that the town engineer to amend their report and provide a full comprehensive analysis of the physical conditions of the roadway. He also asked the commission to explore the definition of the 1,200 ft requirement and how it applies to this particular application and seriously give consideration that any approval of this application should be required to have a second access to this subdivision.
John Eicholz presented a video of Short Hills Road shows a lot of the concerns about the road and traffic in the area of the proposed subdivision. The commission watched the video. The video was submitted into the record. Ross pointed out that when he watched the video he felt the position of the vehicle in the center of the road distorts the presentation. He stated you could drive a Smart car down the center of the road you would not be able to pass two vehicles, therefore he felt showing the vehicle in the center of the road instead of on the side distorts the impression given.
BETH SULLIVAN – MAYWOOD DRIVE
Sullivan asked for the status of the historic foundation on the site. Thompson stated there has been correspondence between Nicholas Bellantoni, State Archaeologist, and the applicant. Thompson noted there appears to be an old barn and initial correspondence from the archaeologist recommended that a conservation easement be established to preserve the barn ruin. Thompson stated further discussion concluded that there is some concern that it could be a safety concern, so the archaeologist recommended that the foundation be filled in with sand and documentation be provided by the applicant documenting the site. He noted in more recent correspondence the applicant has received approval to remove the barn and use the stone on the site for stonewalls. (A copy of the correspondence is available in
the file).
Sullivan asked if the cul-de-sac was enclosed at the end by building lots. Thompson stated it was not. Sullivan read from the regulations “cul-de-sacs, or street enclosed at one end by a building lot or open space and which will not be extended in the future”. Sullivan asked if the plan was to extend this cul-de-sac in the future. She further noted that the applicant stated that this regulation did not apply and she believes it should.
Attorney Cassella stated the responsibility for interpreting this regulation as it applies rests with this Planning Commission. He further stated that during their deliberation the commission would have an opportunity to discuss these things amongst themselves as to whether or not this application applies to certain regulations. He noted that there would not be a dialogue between members of the commission and public answering questions on how they interpret certain regulations because that is what the deliberation session is for.
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Cassella stated this is the time the commission has reserved for comments from the public.
Sullivan requested that the waivers requested by the applicant not be granted. She further stated it was mentioned that the open space will be held by a homeowners association. She asked if those documents had been made available. Thompson noted all the documents have been submitted. Attorney Chris Smith stated the Declaration has been submitted as part of the application.
CHRIS SMITH – MAYWOOD DRIVE
Smith expressed concerns about the width of road and how it will accommodate the bus traffic with the children getting on and off the bus. He further expressed concern about the condition of the road during the winter with snow and ice and the length of distance the children would have to walk in the dark.
ELLEN RICHARDELL – SHORT HILLS ROAD
Richardell stated that a bus has never gone down Short Hills Road and therefore all of the children in the area would have to be dropped off at the same location on Flat Rock Hill Road.
KATHY NYBERG – HAWTHORNE ROAD
Nyberg stated that she has attended several meetings and the developer is requesting variances and waivers for this subdivision and therefore she questioned who was to gain from this development, the developer or the town. She asked why the town would be making such exceptions for one person.
Nyberg stated the open space was not for the taxpayers but only for the people in the subdivision, therefore she did not feel it was of any benefit to the town.
Nyberg expressed concern that the traffic study was only done only on Short Hills Road and did not encompass the surrounding area.
CHRIS BERGER – HATCHETTS HILL ROAD
Berger expressed concern about the traffic on the roads and the ability for two cars to pass safely on the roads.
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PETER STRAUSS – FLAT ROCK HILL ROAD
Mr. Strauss stated if there is indeed a section of Short Hills Road that is only 14 ft wide how can a large car get passed another large car in the opposite direction; and if it can’t then what is the town’s responsibility to make it possible that it can. Strauss expressed concern that this is an area where the children are dropped off all together and all the parents gather at the intersection of Maywood, Short Hills and Flat Rock to pick up their children because a bus cannot go up Short Hills Road. He further stated they can certainly go up Maywood but the bus does not have adequate area to turnaround.
Strauss noted that the public has spent a great deal of their time attending meetings and all of the commission have said essentially the same things and have not addressed the issues raised. He stated he felt this was ridiculous and did not understand exactly whose purview these problems existed under but stated that clearly Short Hills Road cannot meet the requirements for the use it has now and therefore the town must improve it. Strauss then asked if improvements to Short Hills are inevitable why are the issues being broken up so much. Strauss stated he did not hear until today that there was going to be gates. Does that mean that there will be a gated community plunked down in the middle of where he lives!
Thompson stated he was unclear what areas of the roadway are 14ft. Thompson stated he was certainly interested in the turnaround in the area of Flat Rock and Short Hills Road as far as bus traffic. Thompson stated there are regulations that have been established and it is the commission’s responsibility to make sure that the development is in accordance with the regulations.
Cassella again reinforced the fact that discussion between the commission and members of the public should be minimized.
HOWARD TOOKER – LIBRARY LANE
Mr. Tooker, owner of the property, stated this property has been in his family for five generations. Mr. Tooker asked Mr. Bennett, engineer for the applicant, to show on the map the location of Ms. Woodruff’s property. Mr. Bennett pointed out the location. Mr. Tooker presented a letter from Ms. Woodruff indicating her support for the project. Tooker stated this developer has taken it upon himself to secure a roadway to the Post Road. Tooker stated he is going to bring all the construction truck traffic in through that road so Ms. Woodruff is going to be impacted the most of all and has no issues with the proposal. Mr. Tooker submitted a petition of 61 signatures in favor of the proposed subdivision.
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(Copy in the file). Tooker also stated he currently lives on a dead end road (Library Lane), which is not to town standards and there are over 50 houses on that street. Tooker stated the developer has chosen out of good faith to make the construction people travel 2 miles from the Post Road rather than disturb Short Hills Road.
KATHY NYBERG
Nyberg asked where the septic lagoons where located on the property. Mike Bennett showed the location on the map. Bennett further stated the lagoons were not located on the property that is part of this application.
VICTORIA LANIER – SHORT HILLS ROAD
Lanier stated she was aware that the Planning Commission has heard a lot of information tonight from both the citizens and the property owner. She noted that she respected the right of the property owner to develop his land, but asked the commission to incorporate and consider the Town Plan of Conservation and Development when making their decision.
Lanier stated one of the goals that was indicated in the Plan of Conservation and Development is to maintain the small town character of Old Lyme while providing for limited growth consistent with the need to preserve existing natural, cultural and historic resources. Lanier stated at the beginning of Short Hills Road there is one of the oldest houses in the country and unfortunately that landowner is unable to attend, so she reminded the commission the importance of protecting that home. Lanier stated also in the Plan of Conservation and Development there is a comment that says “improvement of town roads is necessary to remove identified hazards but changes to local roads which would diminish their scenic quality should be discouraged consistent with safety requirements.” Lanier asked the
commission to consider this also in their deliberation because she feels that Short Hills Road has a distinct character to it and the people who live there appreciate it. Lanier stated also with regard to the regulation which was discussed prior with regard to the 1,200 ft road length that there is a solution to this issue where all of the concerns raised by the public could be addressed and allow the developer to have the development if we simply asked him to change the entrance into the site. Lanier stated that tonight Mr. Tooker also submitted a letter from the woman who lives closest to that property stating she is in favor of the development, so if the Planning Commission could just look at the whole picture, and preserve the character of our town and this could all be accomplished if the alternate access was used for the site.
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Strauss stated he owned one of the seven oldest houses in the country and noted that the Historic District was unable to give him the age of any home as old or older than his located in the Historic District. Mr. Strauss also discussed two other ancient homes located in the Short Hills area. Strauss stated that if Phase II happens then all the traffic will be swarming around all three of these ancient homes. Strauss stated the style of Old Lyme will be turned upside down by this type of development. Strauss stated if this proposal were proposed in the Village of Old Lyme nobody would give it the time of day but since it is located in the northeast corner of town which is very low density and these developments could almost be in East Lyme they are s not a priority of the town.
Attorney Chris Smith stated that he felt the concerns the commission heard tonight were with regard to offsite traffic and its speculation and unsubstantiated fears. Smith stated what the commission has in its record from its own consultant “DLS Traffic and Engineering” states that there will be a minimal increase in traffic associated with the seven lot subdivision. Smith stated there is also testimony from Heska Traffic and Engineering Services” as well and noted that there is no countering expert testimony to say anything other than that. Smith also noted that the applicant retained a Fire Emergency Service Consultant expert to provide the commission with testimony that Short Hills Road will accommodate emergency service vehicles entering which is one of the attributes of the Section
5.5.7 e 2. Smith also stated there is no demonstrated safety issue with a road that all these people travel up and down everyday of their lives. Smith states as far as the bus stop there will be a turnaround right at the end of Great Oak Road. Smith stated there is expert testimony that the turnaround will accommodate an aerial fire truck and therefore can accommodate a bus. Smith stated as far as Chief Jewett’s comment amount having a deeded right, he stated that it is in the proposed emergency access easement that was submitted to the commission and the applicant has no problem deeding that easement over to the town so that the fire and safety service providers have the ability to access across that area. Smith stated that Mr. Metcalf makes reference, which was brought up by Attorney Cronin in Mr. Metcalf’s report of September 8, 2008, that one of things that would be looked at to demonstrate whether or not there is a problem
with Short Hills Road is accident reports and the applicant has provided the commission with a report from the State Police which indicated there has been no reported accidents on Short Hills Road from January 2005 through September 2008 and that is the evidence concerning Short Hills Road. Attorney Smith stated that there is case law that indicates that you cannot keep going down the road looking for impacts and denying the application based on that and that is the law in the State of Connecticut on that particular issue.
Attorney Smith respectfully requested that the commission review and look at the maximum road length requirements as it specifically provides “that temporary dead end
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Streets, which may projected into adjoining property at some future date, may exceed such length but shall not exceed a reasonable interim length for safe convenient vehicular access including emergency vehicles.” Attorney Smith stated once again there is evidence in the record that emergency vehicles can get to these 7 lots and service them and this subdivision certainly falls within that provision of that regulation.
MICHAEL SULLIVAN
Sullivan stated that a school bus full of children going up a narrow road with wetlands on either side in snowy weather is a lot different circumstances than a fire truck that is mandated to go to those places.
VICTORIA LANIER
Lanier wanted to make a reference to the case law that Attorney Smith referenced. Lanier read a couple of sentences from the case “it says that the commission is empowered to look at the internal traffic circulation and on the site and placement of entrances and exits which affect traffic flow on the adjacent streets, further the commission is entitled to examine specific issues such as the placement of entrances and exits in order to disturb arterial traffic minimally and provisions to minimize the impact of traffic on near by residential areas”. Lanier stated those quotes come directly out of the Pansy Road case. Lanier stated she was not sure how Attorney Smith could tell the commission those items cannot be considered. Lanier asked the commission to consider and alternate entrance. She further stated she was not trying to crush the whole thing, but to consider an alternate entrance into the site.
Harold Thompson made a motion to close the public hearing. Steve Ross seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously.
AMEND THE AGENDA
Steve Ross made a motion to amend the agenda to add a deliberation period for the Short Hills Subdivision and noted that discussion will be continued until the next meeting. Harold Thompson seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously.
Steve Ross stated that almost all the issues raised by the citizens as well as Attorney Cronin related to traffic to be generated by seven homes and the condition of off-site roads. He noted he felt that sums up most of the public’s concerns and arguments brought forward. Ross stated Attorney Cronin’s interpretation versus his interpretation of the regulations were very different. Thompson stated it was not very long ago that Attorney Cronin was arguing on the other side.
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Thompson suggested that the commission members review Sections 5.5.7. and 5.5.2 Cassella stated he would like to the opportunity to review the regulations, however it is the commission’s obligation and responsibility to interpret these regulations.
Ross stated that it is questionable as to whether an off-site road is within the jurisdiction of the commission. He further stated it was his understanding that it is not. Ross stated this involves an existing town roads that do not meet town road standards, and noted that there are plenty of them in town, however this is a road in which by his observation and by comments made by people who attended tonight, that traffic generated on this road travels slowly because of the nature of the road. Ross stated this is a mixed blessing. He stated that if the road is improved the speed will increase. He stated if the road is brought up to town road standards people would “fly” down that road. Therefore, he stated just as a development makes it incumbent upon the town to have
sufficient police, fire, school and other municipal services to serve the additional residents in that development, whether it be seven homes or fifty-seven homes, the infrastructure of road is the town’s responsibility not the developers responsibility because he is adding houses. He stated the developer only has to improve the town road where the development meets it. Ross stated we are talking about seven lots, and the arguments he heard specifically from Attorney Cronin were totally out of proportion to the actual scope and impact of this development. Ross stated the commission is reviewing seven lots on an existing gravel road. Ross stated he lives on a road that has twelve homes and seven of them were added in the last twelve years. He stated none of the existing five residents have ever expressed any concern over the increased traffic and this area is a lot more condensed than the Short Hills area. He further stated this road feeds
onto another secondary road that ends in a cul-de-sac. Ross stated these conditions exist all over town.
Ross stated that he disagreed with Attorney Cronin’s interpretation of the regulation which he cited with regard to the maximum length and number of building lots accessed by a dead end street. Ross stated the statement that reads “shall not provide access to more than thirty building lots” does not apply to Short Hills Road; in this case it applies to the new road. Ross stated when he came out of that road with his car he could go right or left and that makes two outlets. Ross stated that Cronin’s interpretation was that if you go east there is no way out. Thompson stated the regulations state that if you have less than 25 lots you need only one egress. Ross once again stated he disagrees with Attorney Cronin’s interpretation. He stated his argument gives
the impression that all of Short Hills Road is deficient. He stated there is little doubt in his mind that this not the responsibility of the developer but the responsibility of the Town of Old Lyme and if that road needs improvement because of safety concerns then those arguments should be made to the Selectmen and it should be budgeted to improve that road as needed to properly and safely serve the residents of the road.
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Thompson stated a workshop was held about two weeks ago with regard to these situations all over town. Thompson stated one of the questions proposed to Mr. Griswold was when there are deficient roads in town how do we, as a town, improve these roads. Thompson noted there was no conclusion but it was agreed further discussions would continue.
Ross stated this situation reminds him of the Enok Pederson development where there was an argument made about an unsafe intersection. Ross stated the commission went well beyond its responsibility to try to get that intersection improved and the Town of Lyme refused to do anything. Therefore, he felt if the residents of Short Hills feel the road is unsafe they should bring their arguments to the Town of Old Lyme, and the Selectmen in particular, to see what they can do about it.
Thompson stated there was one resident of Short Hills Road who stated that they have done a lot themselves to improve and maintain that road because the town had not done any work on the roadway.
Ross stated one thing that sticks out to him is that he wonders if anyone can show that the addition of seven homes on a side street will change Short Hills Road from what is a currently usable road servicing all the homes that currently exist on it, to a road that will not serve the homes that currently exist on it because seven homes are added. Ross stated he thinks this has to be taken in perspective and look at the actual scope and impact that this will have on the area. Ross stated another couple of people expressed their desire to maintain the scenic character of Short Hills Road and he totally agreed. He stated if the road is widened that will diminish the character. He stated this application does not impact the scenic character of Short Hills Road except for a couple of 100 ft. where
the intersection is improved to create a better sightline and intersection for the homes that currently exist on that roadway.
Ross stated that he feels that the seven lots comply with the Pansy Road decision because the decision mentioned impact and this is minimal impact. Ross stated he was not expressing an opinion as to whether the commission should approve it or not but was trying to draw together what the commission heard tonight. Ross stated his main concern is that so much of what the commission heard concerned off-site improvements for which the commission has no jurisdiction.
Cassella stated the commission does have the 5.5.2 regulation which said “where the commission determines that the condition of the existing road is such that the approval of the subdivision could result in a potential safety hazard the commission may require that the applicant make improvements to the existing town road to assure the safety of the residents of the new subdivision.”
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October 9, 2008
Cassella said there are basically regulations for two things: denying an application because of off-site conditions and conditioning an application on off-site improvements. Ross stated his interpretation of that is that it pertains to the portion of the subdivision that is adjacent to the existing town road and it clear that is the responsibility of the developer and in this case they are complying. Cassella stated there are essentially a few different opinions between all the attorneys that were expressed at the first meeting. Cassella stated the applicants would have you believe you look at the intersection where it abuts the subdivision and that is it. Attorney Cronin would have you believe that if the subdivision traffic is going to have impact down the road somewhere you can require
improvements. Cassella stated he would probably lean more towards the applicant’s position but feels the commission can require improvements to a road if it relates to the intersection. Ross stated he felt that as far as the commission could reasonably go would be the distances of the sight lines. Cassella stated Attorney Cronin is right that there is not an official authority on this decision. Cassella stated there are only a few lower court cases and most of them state that nothing can be done off site other than related to the intersection.
Thompson stated one of the other concerns brought up last meeting was that the utilities are within the road width and if the intersection of Short Hills and Flat Rock were widened to meet current standards a portion of the yard of one of the Historic Homes would be lost. Thompson stated if Hatchetts Hill Road was improved and the secondary access was completed he still believes that people would still travel the shorter distance to their destination. Ross stated that he agreed that the population would not travel the additional miles if they did not have to. Ross further added that he felt Attorney Cronin was looking for a traffic study of the town.
Ross stated he felt it was the commission’s charge to be consistent with the town Plan of Conservation and Development and having done the site walk there he felt the plans are total within the character of the plan in terms of lot size and placement of homes and the roadway being constructed. The commission also noted that the open space more than met the requirement of the regulations. He further stated he did not feel the open space should have town access and that was similar to many other areas of the town. He further noted if you bought a home in that development you would not want the public going through your backyard. Ross further stated he felt it was a definite advantage to any subdivision to have private open space. He also expressed concern that is a safety
issue to have public access to the open space in a remote area. Ross stated when and if this proposal is granted, the people in those new seven lots will now be residents of the town and will want to close the gate and will express the same concerns that are being expressed by people already living in the area.
Page 16 – Minutes
October 9, 2008
Ross stated that the commission needs to keep the scope of the project in mind. Ross asked if there were any other issues that were non-traffic related to the subdivision. Thompson stated the stone remains are an issue. Ross stated he felt it should be left the way it is. Thompson stated that Bellantoni stated there were safety issues with leaving it as it is on the site and the applicant has been granted an approval to use the stones on the site.
READING AND APPROVAL OF THE SEPTEMBER MINUTES DATE 9/11 AND 9/22.
Steve Ross made a motion to waive the reading and approve the minutes as submitted. Connie Kastelowitz seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously.
Respectfully submitted,
Kim Groves
Land Use Administrator
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